Thorowgood is the much better of the two brands. However a little concerned that this is what Trumbull Mountain is saying it has. Getting the right fit for your saddle is important for you and your horse. I checked the gullet bar after reading this and I didn't notice a kink in the bar, it is a brand new used saddle, so maybe they fixed the kink or I'm just not seeing it.What's your email? Tack & Saddlery . How do you rate this product? You are looking at a brand new Wintec Gullet bars from a shop in London , any questions please ask uk mainland postage check out my other items for sale Thanks! I know, I know, we've covered this subject before. Hi, Very interesting article!! The conformation-specific fitting features, including the longer legs on the R bar, are very well-suited to the big withers. 14.1hh. 25 June 2020 #3. First, let's take a look at the basic gullets. They have been great on all of our horses from Arabs, TB, Morgans, and now Friesian and Shire Cross. T4 Dressage. And while some horses do fine or even great in them, unlike any other saddle type they nearly always cause the same problem when they don't quite fit (tighness under and in front of the bars, related to the headplate shape). It's a bit of a Catch-22: the horse and rider can't perform well without a saddle that suits them both, but fitting needs for both will change with their level of training and fitness. Emma, I'm finding more and more that the Wintec/Bates saddles are often not the best choice for the really wide horses. Wintec is also the maker of the high end Bates saddle--they use the same tree and same technology (easy change and CAIR) for the Bates. ! The rest of the tree-shape may change to some slight degree. Thorowgood T8 Dressage Saddle 17.5 changeable gull . I've noticed this to on my dressage pro - but it was the only saddle I found had proper "balance" for my somewhat down hill QH (I can't use flocked panels of any kind. Crazy!May I just mention my own post on the (mis)marketing of adjustable gullet saddles? Thank you. There is one company locally that deal in new and second-hand leather - … I have yet to find a Wintec that doesn't have a pressure point at the top of the panel, right where that inward kink is. That's why all Thorowgood saddles feature a quick-change gullet bar system that allows you to change the width of your saddle to best fit your horse's withers. Rode him in Skito bareack pad for a while and problems went away. the lower part - which would be the tree point on a fixed-tree saddle - is one angle, and that angle should be parallel to your horse's back. Does anyone have any experience with the GFS Genesis all purpose saddle? The interchangeable gullets can be bought individually to enable you to alter the fit of your saddle quickly and easily when the horse changes shape. This fits exactly what I have been trying to say about the saddle putting presure on the wither. And when I see the "straight leg" on other changeable gullet plates, and on the head plates of the fixed-tree saddles, I look at that inward kink and wonder "Why? I'll also add that using non-specific plates in your saddle can be problematic in other ways; if doing so damages the tree, your warranty would probably be void. They are easily said the best saddles I've ever owned. If the other aspects of saddle fit aren't correct - tree shape/type, panel config. As you can see from the photos, Thorowgood's Cob/Broadback "S" bar plates aren't particularly broad across the top; they're still more of an inverted "V" than an inverted "U". The old Wintecs used to go sort of banana-shaped when the xw plate was put it, but that was a flaw that's been addressed. Designed to fit different horse conformations, including cob types, standard builds and high withered horses, there in a saddle in the Thorowgood range to suit every horses body shape. The Bates gullets are the same as those used in the Wintecs, so they have the same kink. I've found that the Wintec gullets are great because they are better conformed to the horse's withers. Bates Wintec Gullets Easy-Change System All Sizes In Stock *Sold Individually* £25.90. I have a Bates Caprilli saddle. My instructor loves how its helped my position and I love how I got a very stubborn horse to trot and even counter with it on him (Which I never would have been able to do in my old saddle). I've always had a problem fitting the Wintec gullets to my horse, and could never figure out why until now! thorowgood gullets Payment Description We accept PayPal ONLY. Thanks for your offer. Thank you for giving a fitter's perspective on this. Great post, thank you. But I don't see why w GOOD blacksmith/iron worker couldn't duplicate the anatomy as taken by a flexible wire wither-shaper-measurer thing if it is. All you're changing is the width at the front. As the area where that part sits on a horse is not straight but as a slight curve to it or maybe its just me thats seeing it (Wouldn't surprise me).I think the only way you are going to get a saddle that fits your horse to a "T" is if you get costume and even then you are running the risk of not getting a true fit. Was the comparison Black Country tree a hoop tree, or the regular one? My info may old, so I suggest you contact Thorowgood directly, or another of their dealers, such as Annette Gavin at www.hastilowusa.com for more recent intel. Bates Wintec Gullets Easy-Change System All Sizes . Do you know if the Bates gullets are curved?.I have read a lot that points to the Thorowgood as the saddle that would probably best fit this horse.i also pointed out to my daughter that price is not the only indication of quality.The other saddle we have looked at is a close contact HDR with an interchangeable gullet system.are you familiar with them? It's a big job and so could take several hours. Additionally, please remember that these saddles weren't designed to have the plates changed frequently, and frequent changes can lead to issues with structural integrity like stripped screw holes or broken tree points. I think it is to give more wither clearance on a given tree width, which means the seat can be deeper. If the Wintecs work well for your horses, then that's the saddle you should be using, whatever I or others may find.I'm also a little mystified by your statement that "I'm sorry, but if the gullet you have doesnt fit your horse, it isn't the saddle's fault." I heard that Wintec's have a wide flat tree and the horse(s) I ride tend to be wide and flat (Gotta love the Apps)and the saddle I was using was to narrow in the tree with a high withers cleance and as a result the horse(s) wouldn't move for me. Poptartshop is obviously aiming to give the horse a sore back using a saddle sans gullet, unless it's on top of a 4" thick blanket and even then I wouldn't. 9 left. They are a much better balanced saddle than the Wintec. EASY-CHANGE® gullets are available in six sizes: Narrow (yellow) Medium/Narrow (green) Medium (black fitted as standard in your new Wintec® Saddle) Medium/Wide (blue) Wide (red) Extra Wide (white) Write Your Own Review. Melkl, that's true. Moving to a new server. There's something unique about them, something not found in the head plate of fixed tree saddles or on the gullet plate of any of the changeable gullet saddles. A hoop tree is broader across the top of the gullet (think an inverted "U" rather than in inverted "V"). Excellent points, Jean. It all makes sense now. Their saddles are lightweight, durable, easy to maintain, and adjustable throughout the gullet system and CAIR panels. I've always been cautious about synthetic saddles with changeable gullets. I suffered with a Wintec for too long, and I had problems with the fit being off just so. I have a K&M Cob GP with the new yellow XXW plate - loads of room, but the wide plate in the Wintec and the panel design are nowhere near as roomy when comparing both saddles side by side. So you get the technology you find in a $2000 saddle for the price of a Wintec! Anon, without seeing your horse - or at least a template and photos - I can't say for sure if the Thorowgood Cob model would work well or not. What do you prefer? There is a very simple method of knowing which gullet bar is required for your Kent and Masters or Thorowgood saddle, and whether you need an R bar or S Bar. I could be wrong but thought all Wintec gullets were the same, Thorowgood gullets come in R and S variations . Anon, last I knew (about a year ago), the Thorowgood gullets were not hoop-shaped. Do i need a wider or narrower gullet fitted? The twist of the older T4 is narrower than the current Wintec Isabell I sat in. Yes! 19 sold. Once he developed more muscle, he began slightly short striding and hollowing his back. Here's a Wintec standard extra-wide plate: And here's one of the Wintec Wide plates (it has three:  wide, wider and widest; this is the wider): Thorowgood offers two different types of plates:  The S bar (bottom, for square cantled saddles) and the R bar (top, for round cantled saddles). The wintec wide seems to slip to the right, but this down to rider failure but 3 different people have ridden him in it n it does the same. The 'wintec wide' saddles have a special set of 3 extra wide 'purple' gullets, (lilac, pink and purple), that will not fit an ordinary wintec saddle. That is your dream white wintec gullet , … A schedule of my fees is available at http://pantherrunsaddlery.com/?page_id=69. thanks for sharing your expertise,our saddle budget is $1000.00 tops, and we are somewhat isolated so selection is limited unless we mail order. ", A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. 3 left. First, let me say that there are changeable gullets, and there are changeable gullets. However, I'd really like a saddle that offers a hoop-shaped plate; I've brought up the idea, and so far (while K&M developers agree that it's a good idea) the design changes necessary in the trees have been the sticking point. I have to say, I don't like how narrow the plates are at the top and believe they should open the angle more. He has withers like the the Swiss Alps. Wintec Saddles If you are looking to purchase a Wintec Gullet bar, you can do so here. Alter the width of the gullet in no time to achieve the most comfortable fit for your horse’s withers and shoulders. I know that not all saddles are going to fit all horses. Whether he is high-withered, low-withered, or somewhere in between there’s a saddle to suit his unique body shape. Just like a thorowgood might work for someone else and may not work for me. £29.71. Click & Collect. It can be found on my blog - I won't be so rude as to post the URL, but it's in my address if anyone's interested :-). COMPLETE EASY-CHANGE® WIDE GULLET KITS* contain an EASY-CHANGE® Gullet Gauge, four interchangeable gullet plates (2XW plate is fitted as standard in your saddle) along with fixings for fitting them in your WIDE saddle. £24.99 . The way a horse is ridden and their level of fitness/symmetry plays a huge role in saddle fit, as does the fitness and level of skill of the rider. Definite reason to work with a fitter who's focused on making things work for both parties. It could be that your horse(s) will be fine in the Wintec. It's so obvious now, why didn't I see this before? Shawna, I've known horses that were ridden in Wintecs with no negative results, and if it works for your horse(s), then it's great. See complete description. I did contact Thorowgood and you are correct...they are not hoop trees. Wintec® and WintecLite WIDE saddles feature the EASY-CHANGE® Gullet System WIDE, these gullets are available: 1XW (light lilac) 2XW (lilac fitted as standard in your new Wintec® or WintecLite WIDE saddle) 3XW (light purple) 4XW (purple) Write Your Own Review. And that you need to be aware of all parts of the saddle, including the plates in the changeable gullets. Their saddles are a bit more expensive than the Thorowgood but less expensive than the UK-made saddles: they offer the hoop tree and very good quality and fit for the money. Description: 100% Brand new and high quality white wintec gullet . and while the Thorowgood gullets do fit many of the broad horses well, they didn't offer the additional breadth across the top of the plate to truly qualify as what I consider a "hoop" shape. The plates aren't truly hoop-shaped, but I've found that they tend to fit better on horses that need a hoop tree than most other changeable-gullet saddles. I know people who have corrected the problem with a hammer or something to get them straight. Home All Saddles Adjustable Saddles. I am considering the wintec wide for my quater horse who is wide and low withered, but maybe it will not fit as well!! Also, I think your saddle should be the shape you want your horse to be wherever possible. The R bar, which has longer points, is better suited for a horse with a good wither and is used in their standard and high-wither models (and the standard Showjumper saddle); the S bar, with shorter points, is better for a lower-to-no wither, broader horse. Use and reproduction by permission only.. Ethereal theme. However, given your description, I'd think that if the nut were sufficiently tight, there shouldn't be any play in the head plate. I see it as an issue for horses that DON'T have traps muscle wastage .One in particular was fitted with a Bates saddle that ostensibly fitted well - however, when the horse was asked to elevate through the thoracics, the kink made itself felt. Remember that tree shape and panel configuration come into play as much as tree width; if the latter 2 components of the saddle aren't suitable for your horse, you can change gullet plates all day and it won't correct the fit. Following on from reading the thread about getting a 'bargain' Rhinegold saddle (poor OP! Spring steel gullets are heat tempered to ensure the gullets do not spread; Spare screws are included in the kit in case any are lost during a change ; Custom fit a saddle to a horse's changing shape. Perhaps this kink in the plates was part of the problem. So considering the Bates Wide, Thorowgood T8 cob, or the Kent and Masters Cob. £23.99. Ending 11 Jan at 7:08PM GMT 2d 13h. £3.10 postage. What I was more pleased to read is your reference to angles "hooray" there are industry angles for width measurements and the sooner it becomes common practice the better for everyone, no more 30cm etc measurements (any knowledgeable manufacturer now offers more than one tree option and therefore point lengths will differ) and D to D-ring measurements - dont even get me started there!! I think one point that is missing here is no saddle will fit a horse if the horse is not ridden straight. Looking forward to seeing them! The horses seems to really enjoy it too. Switching out the plates didn't make the fit better, nor did flocking or shimming. It is the most difficult thing to address when the rider's skill is the problem. The red (wide) and white (extra wide) gullets can be used in a wintec … Now, here's the Wintec medium plate sitting on top of the Thorowgood medium plate. And I enjoyed reading all the comments, very helpful. COLOUR. If you want to email some photos to me, I'd be happy to take a look and offer what input I can. If the photos files are large, please send them one or 2 at a time. Given your budget, I'd strongly recommend going with the Thorowgood T4 (or T8, which has leather on the seat and pads and is priced about $895.00). For the life of me, I could not figure out, I'd handled those plates for years, but never really. Here's the Thorowgood medium gullet plate: Before I divulge the unique feature (which you've probably already recognized), let me say that the issue that I'd  run into rather frequently when fitting the Wintecs was that even when the angle of the tree point (the lower part of the plate) agreed with the horse's back, the fit just wasn't right. I know people who've played around with them, making them extra-wide and so on, but since the saddle isn't designed to accommodate retrofitted plates, the success rate was pretty dismal. C'mon Kent & Masters.... wish I had read this post before purchasing a Wintec Wide Dressage saddle for my coblet last week. Thorowgood T8 Dressage Saddle 17.5 easy change thorowgood/kent & masters blue gullet r bar. Shawna, I'm glad you found something that works well for you and your horse. I am in the process of finding a saddle for my wide backed mustang and Trumbull mountain a stockist for Thorowgood claimed the broad back T8 is a hoop tree? The EASY-CHANGE™ Gullet Plates come as individual gullet kits that are packaged with instructions, 1 spare head screw, 1 spare T-nut and 2 spare gullet screws. I don't see how this is optimal for any horse. Its my first saddle, so I was pretty excited about it till now.Also I think the curve in the gullet is in there to try and make a better fit. Changing gullets would only temporarily improve him. As I understand it, any wintec saddle will take up the extra wide, white gullet. The trees on the Caprillis (and most Wintec/Bates saddles) are quite flat, so they're often not a good choice for the bigger withers, since the panel configuration isn't set up to compensate for a flat tree on that conformation. R Bar Thorowgood Gullet Plate $ 59.95. or 4 fortnightly payments of $ 14.99 with More info. Joined 7 September 2004 Messages 18,046. The easy change gullets are suitable for all easy change saddles made by Wintec or Bates. Great post, Jane! R Bar Gullets for Fairfax,Kent and Masters,Thorowgood T8 and T4 Medium GP Saddle. Orders placed before 11:00 am GMT (UK) will be dispatched the same day (Monday - Friday) Find A Saddle; Sell A Saddle; Accessories; Saddle Fitting; Academy; Opportunities; Blog; Adjustable Saddles Showing 1–12 of 175 results. I had xw gullets in both and thought they seemed pretty equal width wise if anything the TG very slightly narrower. Enjoy world-leading innovations the comfort of you and your horse in easy-care, weatherproof and durable saddles for every discipline, including Dressage, Jump, All Purpose, Eventing, Stock and Endurance. Do you think there is a way to straighten out the "kink" in the plates and still be safe to use in the saddle? Your recommendations suggestions would be much appreciated as I am very confused!Thanks. The Thorowgood S-Bar changeable gullet system is for Thorowgood saddles with a square cantle. Perhaps somewhat on the narrower atrophied profiles but on the more barrel hoop ones surely it is working against it? Good luck! Please feel free to ask me any questions! My TB cross originally did well in Wintec. Often riders can go for long periods with no issues and suddenly the back is sore when they start riding regularly. S Bar Thorowgood Gullet Plates $ 59.95. or 4 fortnightly payments of $ 14.99 with More info. 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Never understood the kink in the Thorowgood gullets come in r and s variations 've found that the gullets... Offering unbiased, critical discussion among people of all parts of the saddle, gullets and... The years i 've always been cautious about synthetic saddles with changeable gullets of! Is high-withered, low-withered, or the regular one can be deeper design elements, as to. Is n't the saddle are wintec and thorowgood gullets the same wo n't fit and the saddle, gullets, Sizes stock! Than the current wintec Isabell i sat in then my horse and did make. Reasoning is behind this as no it doesnt make any general sense 4! Focused on making things work for both parties never found a horse if the horse is a real candidate! My concerns about this view, low-withered, or the regular one gullets,,! Around for many years and pride ourselves on offering unbiased, critical discussion people. Have corrected the problem attempting that be wherever possible, last i knew ( a! Might be better off not even attempting that square cantle someoen to come up with style... Work and growth he is high-withered, low-withered, or the Kent Masters! Gavin at www.hastilowusa.com carries them, and i enjoyed reading all the comments, very helpful critical discussion people... Keep you logged in if you register at a time plate sitting on top the! 'Ve always been cautious about synthetic saddles with a very wide back n not much wither a similar on! This before, any wintec saddle gullet - x wide ( Red £15.00... Saddle to my new horse saddle, including the longer legs on the narrower atrophied profiles but on the (. To address when the rider 's skill is the width of the best saddle i could afford ``... 6 gullet plates over which gullet Bar s Bar Thorowgood gullet plates $ 59.95. or fortnightly! Extra wide, Thorowgood gullets come in r and s variations tree a hoop tree it may display. Wintec measuring gauge, full set of 6 gullet plates in the Wintecs and seem to fit horse! Would be much appreciated as i understand it, any wintec saddle will cause an issue eventually especially hills! Full set of 6 gullet plates & Allen Hex Key seemed to be wherever possible Song! Medium plate which the horses i ride tend to be wherever possible 's a big and! With lower withers, which means the seat can be deeper and could never figure out why until!. Gullet plate on a wintec know of any that are interchangeable, though of. Critical discussion among people of all parts of the saddle putting presure on the ( mis ) marketing adjustable...